GGTKY Q2 2025 Earnings

This is Joel Ellis, Head of Investor Relations. Welcome to the PT GoTo Gojek Tokopedia TBK second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. On today's call, Patrick Waluyol, President Director and Group CEO, and Simon Ho, Group CFO, will deliver prepared remarks.

Following their commentary, we will open up the call for questions and be joined by Catherine Hindra Suchayo, our Deputy CEO and Vice President Director, Hans Patuo, our President of On-Demand Services and Chief Operating Officer, and Sudhanshu Raheja, our President of Financial Technology Services. We would like to highlight that the information presented today has been prepared solely based on unaudited, consolidated, selected financial information for the three-month period ended June 30, 2025.

We have also submitted and published our consolidated financial statements as of and for the six months ended June 30, 2025 that have been reviewed. As a reminder, today's discussion may contain forward-looking statements about the company's future business and financial performance, as well as certain non-Indonesian financial accounting standard measures as complements to the Indonesian financial accounting standard disclosures. Before using and or relying on these measurements and forward-looking statements, please take note of our disclaimer and cautionary statements disclosed in our earnings presentation and press release.

During the earnings call, we will review the results of our operations and earnings presentation, which can be found on our website. Our reporting currency is the Indonesian rupiah, and we will denote the US dollar equivalent by applying an exchange rate of 16,233 rupiah for one US dollar, based on the middle rates published by Bank Indonesia as at the end of June 2025. We will refer to pro forma figures to facilitate like-for-like sequential and year-on-year comparisons of our performance following the closing of our announced agreement with TikTok and the deconsolidation of GoToLogistics.

These pro forma figures assume that Tokopedia and GoToLogistics were deconsolidated on January 1, 2024. We will also refer to Group EBITDA, which is calculated from profit and loss from operations excluding depreciation and amortization as well as non-recurring items. Further, we will also refer to adjusted operating cash flow, which is operating cash flow after adjusting for cash flows related to the lending disbursements and pass-through funds. For more information and additional disclosures on our recent business and financial performance, please refer to our earnings press release and supplemental presentation, which can be found on our IR website.

With that, I will turn the call over to Patrick.

Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. In the second quarter, Goto Group set new records across the board, with Group Core GTV growing 43% year-on-year, net revenue rising 23%, and adjusted EBITDA hitting a new high of Rp427 billion, or $26.3 million, growing Rp491 billion, or $30.2 million year-on-year. Our profitability journey has progressed substantially over the past few quarters, and I am pleased to note that during Q2, we generated positive Group EBITDA for the third consecutive quarter, totaling 292 billion rupiah, or 18 million US dollars.

Group EBITDA shows the recurring EBITDA of our core business, demonstrating significant ongoing efficiency improvements. In addition, we delivered positive adjusted operating cash flow of 313 billion rupiah on 19.3 million US dollars, demonstrating the strength of our strategy and sustained momentum in the business. Both fintech and on-demand services also delivered their best ever adjusted EBITDA, which I will discuss in more detail shortly. These results keep us firmly on track.

to meet our full year adjusted EBITDA guidance of 1.4 to 1.6 trillion rupiah as we seek to create a customer centric technology business that supports the livelihoods of countless tribal partners and merchants across Indonesia. Indonesia is one of the world's largest yet still under penetrated digital markets, which gives us a long runway for growth. To capture it, we must ensure we are fully equipped with the best people and technology.

The main barriers we identified were legacy tech infrastructure, which was built over a number of years, as well as the fact that our tech talent pipeline was unable to keep up with the demands of a rapidly growing business. In the second quarter, we tackled our tech infrastructure problem by replacing our cloud systems, which were becoming increasingly inefficient and costly with brand new infrastructures provided by Alibaba Cloud and Tencent Cloud.

We completed the migration in the second quarter on time, resulting in a lighter, more agile platform that will accelerate our product pipeline, enabling quicker cross-business product rollouts and innovations. This project ranks among the most complex of its kind globally. It required coordinating full cloud providers across four geographies and moving all core business lines in under a year, all without material downtime or user disruption. All go-to data is stored and processed on Indonesia-based infrastructure, ensuring full data sovereignty compliance and enterprise-grade security for consumers and partners.

While capability and speed were the priority, the financial impact is clear. Cloud costs will step down materially by at least 50%. Delivery and fintech and the larger, more capable engineering bands at home on top of the efficiencies from our cloud foundations. This talent-first model optimizes how we build, launch, and scale, translating technology into better customer and partner experiences and durable value creation.

Turning now to how we are unlocking the bottleneck around our talent pipeline. Our goal is simple, build the best engineers. We are committed to growing the talent pool at home, while we must also go to where the talent currently lies. This is why we opened technology hubs in China, one of the deepest pools of engineering and data science expertise to work alongside our existing teams.

By collaborating together, this arrangement will raise the bar across the organization, providing benefits to all our engineering teams in Indonesia, Singapore, and India. Ultimately, the benefits will be faster time to market, stronger core platforms across mobility, delivery, and FinTech, and a larger, more capable engineering bench. With strong infrastructure and talent in place, we are in an excellent position to really invest in our AI capability, which is already market-leading in Indonesia.

In the second quarter, we launched Sahabat AI's 70 billion parameter foundation model and hosted entirely in Indonesia. Global models are powerful, but often miss Indonesian language nuance and can be costly at scale for low to mid-complexity work. Sahabat.ai gives us high quality, locally optimized performance and lets us adapt quickly. We are embedding Sahabat.ai modules across the ecosystem to create operating leverage.

Faster decisions, better accuracy and lower cost to serve. Running Sahabat.ai in Indonesia reduces latency and we combine it with best-in-class external models where they fit the use case. Together, this approach delivers quicker product cycles, richer experiences for customers, and meaningfully lower unit costs as we scale. With all this in place, we are ensuring our business is optimized for faster, more agile execution while providing improved experience for consumers, driver partners, and merchants as we embark on our next phase of growth, unlocking the huge potential that Indonesia has for our ecosystem.

Turning now to FinTech, payments is the backbone of our ecosystem. As it becomes a bigger part of everyday life through multiple use cases across Gojek, Tokopedia, QR code payments, bill payments, pop-ups and transfers, it will bring more Indonesians onto the platform. This makes GoPay a very powerful code engine for the ecosystem. The rich, real-time data it provides lets us match customers with the products and services they genuinely want.

Customers enter via GoPay and move seamlessly across mobility, food, and financial services, broadening our reach into the mass market and strengthening retention. In short, payments is the current that powers the go-to flywheel, driving deeper engagement, better economics, and wider reach. Our FinTech business achieved another milestone this quarter, delivering a record-adjusted EBITDA of 88 billion rupiah of 5.4 million US dollars, growing by 87% from the prior quarter and up by 256 billion rupiah of 158 million US dollars from a year ago.

Monthly transacting users reached 22.4 million, up 29% year-on-year. For GTV, net revenue grew by 46%, and 76% year-on-year respectively. Two years on from its July 2023 launch, the standalone GoPay app is a key driver of that performance. Since launch, FinTech MTUs are up 68%, CoreGTV is up 2.4 times, and average payment transactions per user have risen 26%.

Every day, GoPay use cases deepen engagement And with digital payments penetration in Indonesia still low, we see substantial runway ahead and expect continued rapid user growth. Consumer loans outstanding expanded to 6.6 trillion rupiah of $406 million, up 90% year-on-year and 15% quarter-on-quarter, marking the ninth consecutive quarter of strong loan book growth. Assets quality remains strong and stable, underpinned by our unique ecosystem advantage. During one of Indonesia's richest pools of transactional data, we acquire customers efficiently, price risk accurately, and manage the portfolio proactively.

Key delinquency and non-performing loans ratios remain comfortably within our target range, highlighting discipline underwriting and prudent portfolio management. Cross-selling continues to accelerate. loans disbursed to GoPay and Gojek users rose 96% year-on-year, and the share of active users with at least one lending product continued to increase. This deepens relationship, lifts lifetime revenue, and adds scale with minimal incremental acquisition cost.

Let me turn to strategic partnerships. With Indonesia's most comprehensive digital ecosystem and tens of millions of customers, GoTo offers partners brand enhancing reach and trusted distribution while our payment rails provide tangible value add to their users and merchants. We selectively work with high quality platforms that have large user base where they are clear two way synergies. Better, more convenient experiences for their customers and more users, more transactions and deeper engagement for both sides.

Recent examples include our work with Telkomsel and TikTok, where GoPay is embedded directly into everyday journeys. These integrations extend to our FinTech reach, lift payment activity and open new use cases, all while improving customer experience. In the second quarter, we launched TikTok Sympathy, a joint product from Telkomsel, TikTok, and GoPay that offers TikTok-specific data packages including options designed for creators. Customers can purchase TikTok data package without leaving the GoPay app, improving convenience and the overall experience on TikTok.

For GoTo, the integration broadens our reach, increases payment activity in GoPay, and deepens engagement in a fast-growing segment. We also launched Tacom Cell Wallet by GoPay, a co-branded digital wallet embedded directly within the My Telkomsel app. This enhances Telkomsel customer experience by providing them with access to instant refunds and seamless payments leveraging GoPay's infrastructure. The partnership combines the strengths of both ecosystems and creates a solid foundation for future growth.

In the second quarter, we launched a cash loan product called GoPay Pinjam on TikTok Shop, making us the first in Indonesia to enable cash loans within the platform. The integration gives eligible users a convenient in-app option to access credit without leaving the shopping experience. This initiative is consistent with our focus on building products and partnerships that enhance customer experience and convenience. Looking ahead, we are confident in meeting our fiscal year 2025 targets to increase our loan book to 8 trillion rupiah while achieving at least 300 billion rupiah in adjusted EBITDA.

Turning on to on-demand services, we are executing a clear two-track strategy. First, scaling our business, particularly in the mass market with reliable great value service options. Second, monetizing premium services for customers who prioritize time and comfort. With our upgraded technology stack, we are set to roll out the largest product release pipeline in on-demand services to date, with features tailored to each user segment and designed to raise the experience for customers and driver partners alike.

We delivered record-adjusted EBITDA of 328 billion rupiah, approximately 20.2 million US dollars in the second quarter. This represents an increase of 264% year-on-year, while GTV and net revenue grew by 9% and 13% year-on-year, respectively. Despite the tightening in discretionary consumer spending and intensified competition, our disciplined strategic approach ensured that we successfully maintained our market share in on-demand services. We did this by tailoring our platform for user groups so that it appeals to both premium high spending users who spend more and bring higher margins, as well as mass market consumers who bring volumes and growth.

Maximizing ecosystem synergies is central to our strategy. By strengthening the links between our services, we enable customers to move more seamlessly across services, driving growth and elevating the experience for all stakeholders. In delivery, we increase wallet share among higher income users while widening rates across the broader customer base, marking the businesses' fourth consecutive quarter of margin expansion. Premium Food Express recorded its seventh sequential increase in GDP penetration, fueled by time-sensitive customers who value faster delivery.

We are expanding the offering with new premium features designed for this high spending usage, deepening engagement, and encouraging repeat orders. Our merchant-facing revenue streams continue to gain traction this quarter. Advertising revenue rates 1.8% of GMB, its fourth straight quarterly increase, while merchant-funded promotional spend rose 118% year-on-year. Our targeting algorithm aligns offers with customer preferences, generating measurable sales uplift for merchants, prompting them to recognize the value of our advertising and promotion goals.

This dynamic deepens merchant relationships, enhances customer experience, and drives high-quality growth for go-tos. In mobility, competition intensified during the quarter. We moved quickly with targeted market-specific responses and successfully protected our market shares. The rise in competitive intensity had a near-term impact on mobility margins, and we will continue to calibrate our approach to balance market share protection with discipline, long-term growth and profitability.

Operational performance continues its upward trajectory with improved supply positioning, allowing us to complete more right requests and deliver a smoother experience for customers. Upcoming tech and driver app upgrades in the second half will build on this progress. Innovation remains central to how we serve both customers and driver partners. Since premium services were launched in 2024, it has become a meaningful contributor to mobility revenue.

We are executing a two-track strategy, deepening monetization in the premium segment, where features like faster search resonate with time-sensitive users. while pursuing a clear mass market or strategy focused on the rates, reliability and great value for everyday trips. In the second half, we'll build on this momentum with features that better align service levels to customer needs and elevate the experience for consumers and driver partners alike. Looking ahead, we remain confident in achieving our full year 2025 adjusted EBITDA targets.

We will continue to invest in technology particularly to strengthen our personalization, optimization, and AI capabilities, reinforcing our competitive edge and laying a robust foundation for sustained long-term growth.

Finally, I would like to address recently announced updates to our management team. At our general meeting of shareholders in June, we took a meaningful step forward in strengthening our executive branch, bench, These changes reflect our commitment to continuity and operational excellence. First, I am pleased to announce that Catherine Indra Suchahio has been appointed Vice President Director and Deputy CEO. Under her leadership, On Demand Services achieved strong growth and continued profitability improvement.

In her new role, she will work closely with me to coordinate strategy across the ecosystem and deepen stakeholder relationships, ensuring we remain focused on both discipline execution and long-term value creation. Hans Patuo assumes an expanded role as President of On Demand Services while continuing as Group COO, now overseeing both ODS and FinTech. Hans brings truly fully holistic experience He originally served as COO of Gojek before moving to become president of FinTech, then GoTo Group's COO.

This gives him deep insight into every aspect of our operations, meaning he is ideally pleased to lead our operations through its next phase of growth. We also welcome Sudhanshu Raiheja to the board of directors as president of GoTo Financial. Sudanshu built our payment platform, guided FinTech to profitability, and spearheaded the launch of the standalone GoPay app, driving a significant expansion of our user base. His track record makes him a natural fit to steer Goto Financial on its current growth trajectory.

To broaden and strengthen representation on the board of directors, we have elevated several senior leaders from across the organization. William Shong, our chief technology officer who led our cloud migration. Monica Milene Mulianto, chief people officer. Kusumo Hadiani, director of legal and corporate secretary.

And Ade Mulyana, director of public affairs and communications. Together, my leadership brings deep expertise in technology, talent, governance, and stakeholder engagement, capabilities that will accelerate our growth, enhance customer and driver partner experiences, and create value for all stakeholders. I look forward to working closely with them as we unlock the full potential of the GoTo platform. I will now hand over to Simon to talk through our financial comments.

Thank you, Patrick.

We delivered continued growth and improved profitability across the business with second quarter group or GTV growing 43% year on year, Group net revenue rising 23% year on year and group adjusted EBITDA reaching 427 billion rupiah or 26.3 million US dollars. An improvement of 491 billion rupiah or 30.2 million US dollars year on year. As mentioned earlier, we also delivered our third consecutive order of positive quarterly group EBITDA.

Group EBITDA differs from adjusted EBITDA as it includes share-based compensation. It totaled 292 billion rupiah or 18 million US dollars and improvement of 874 billion rupiah or 53.8 million US dollars year on year. The group generated 313 billion rupiah or 19.3 million US dollars in adjusted operating cash flow, which is our reported operating cash flow, but excluding cash flows related to loan disbursements in our lending business and customer fund flows in our payments business.

Adjusted EBITDA in the fintech segment reached 88 billion rupiah or 5.4 million US dollars, an improvement of 256 billion rupiah or 15.8 million US dollars year on year. Looking at the on-demand services segment, adjusted EBITDA was 328 billion rupiah, or 20.2 million US dollars, up 264% year-on-year, reaching 2% of GTV. Mobility and delivery posted GTV growth of 10.4% and 7.8% year-on-year respectively, with net revenues rising by 12.7% for mobility and 13.6% for delivery.

Adjusted EBITDA for mobility grew 15.8% year on year, while delivery adjusted EBITDA surged by 193 billion rupiah or 11.9 million US dollars year on year. In our e-commerce segment, service fee revenue from Tokopedia in the second quarter reached 199 billion rupiah or 12.3 million US dollars our cash position remains healthy. As of June 30th, 2025, we held 18.2 trillion rupiah or 1.1 billion US dollars in cash, cash equivalents and short-term deposits, giving us the flexibility to invest in long-term growth while maintaining a strong financial foundation.

Looking ahead, our focus is on building upon the progress we have already achieved, and we remain confident in our ability to drive consistent, profitable growth throughout 2025. With that, I will hand the call back to Joel.

Thank you very much, Patrick and Simon. That's the end of our prepared remarks. We will now open the call for questions. If you wish to ask a question, please use the raise hand function that is available to you on Zoom.

Once again, if you do wish to ask a question, please use the raise hand function on Zoom. First question comes from Adrian Djoser at Mandiri Securitas. Adrian, please unmute yourself and go ahead. Okay, we'll go to our next analyst then.

Our next analyst, let's go to our next analyst. Our next analyst is Ferry Wong from Citi. Ferry, please go ahead and ask your question. Yeah, hi.

Can you hear me? We can, we can hear you perfectly. Yeah. Okay.

Congratulations on your continued improvement on your EBITDA. Yeah, I got two questions. First on the practically, would the current macro environment, how is, well, how is this affecting your FinTech and on-demand service businesses? That's my first question.

The second question is, can you break down your loan book between the cash loan and BNPL and share the split of origination from TTS, Tokopedia, GoPay, and Gojek? And also, how is BNPL growth trending on TikTok? Those are my two questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Perry, for the questions. I will ask Catherine to address the first question, which is around the current macro environment and the impact on our FinTech and on-demand services.

Thank you, Patrick. Thank you, Perry. Hi, how are you? So let me address the first question on the current macro environment effect on our businesses, both the FinTech and on-demand services.

Yeah, as I mentioned right in the result earlier that while we do see that the micro indicators shows some softening, but I think this is where we are as a platform, especially our ecosystem of the FinTech and ODS combined together, where we are uniquely positioned here as a tech company. we believe we are more nimble, we are more agile, right? We are able to adjust our strategies more swiftly.

We are able to adjust kind of like how we are seeing the situation also faster, probably compared to the more traditional kind of like setup, right? This is clearly shown, hopefully in our 23% continuous year-on-year growth this quarter as well. So maybe if I may share, right, how we see this situation as a platform, as a go-to whole ecosystem, there are three key things that we see that differentiate us.

Number one is the power of ecosystem that has been mentioned, right? Between the GTF, the FinTech business, and the ODS business, we actually have a unique kind of access to data, to kind of access to the customer, that makes us more efficient as a platform. Our ability to acquire users, our ability to serve them, and of course, our ability to monetize them better as well. I think this is where we are playing to our strength as ecosystem.

Of course, on top of that as well, through our payment business, the structural tailwinds also very, very, very important here. This is the rising digital payment adoption and expanding financial inclusion. We believe this continue to give us a long runway, and we are very well positioned to capture this. That's number one, the power of the ecosystem.

Secondly, is the tech capabilities. As we mentioned, because we are a tech platform here, we believe our continuous investment in our tech stack also play a very, very important role here. A couple of examples. The first one, right, if you think about the food delivery business, a lot of the food merchant today with their limited resources, they will look around and see where they can best deploy their resources, their promo money, their budget, right, through our data, algorithm, our investment in our promo and a promo targeting kind of engine, our platform able to provide a better ROI for the lack of better word for our merchant, right?

This is again, where we play to be continuously deepened this capability of ours. The second example is the promo targeting engine, right? This is able for us to react quicker with the current situation, which customer to target, what kind of use case to target, so on and so forth. This is the second one.

The third one, as Pat mentioned earlier, we will continue with our two-track approach here while we continue to focus on our premium segment, as we have shared in the past few quarters, but we'll also continue to deepen our our penetration understanding of the mass market as well. This can clearly be seen through the continued growth of GoPay apps, as well as the HEMAT strategy that we continue to improve on.

Last but not least, with our recent cloud migration, the China office opening, our technology foundation is lighter, faster, more scalable. And we believe that we are speeding up as well, accelerating in our speed of shipping product. This half, next half, our pipeline is probably the largest we've ever seen with a lot of features initiative tailored to not just to the premium user, but also to the mass market user that we have kind of like in our pipeline.

We believe as we roll this out, Again, the power of the ecosystem will continue to deepen our engagement while still delivering the sustainable, profitable. Sorry for a long answer, but yeah, very important one.

Thank you, Catherine. Sudanshu, can you address the second question about our loan book and channel of origination?

I'm sure, Pat. Hi, Perry. Thanks for the question. So your question was in two parts.

Let me go through it one by one. First on platforms, we see incredibly strong momentum led on majorly on our own ecosystem. The majority of our loan outstanding, I would say roughly close to about 60%, comes through the GoPay and the GoCheck apps. And those channels are growing faster than third-party marketplaces.

Now, this is powered by better cross-selling, availability of more data, and much deeper insights for these users than outside the ecosystem. However, at the same time, partnerships such as TikTok broaden our reach. They bring in a lot of new users and complement our core distribution. On TikTok Shop and Tokopedia specifically, the BNPL momentum has been strong.

And we are working on launching new products and features. As Pat shared earlier, in Q2, we also launched the cash loans on the TikTok platform to better serve that customer segment. It's a new start, but it's bringing in a lot of new users. Now, moving on to the second part of your question.

On the product mix, while we don't break out the exact splits, I would say that cash loans make up a larger share of outstanding principal, given the higher ticket sizes and the longer tenures, while BNPL represents a larger share of users and a larger share of transactions. All in all, we've been growing fairly fast. We grew roughly 90% year on year, and the loan book is at about 6.6 trillion as of last quarter.

In the coming half, we're going to continue to expand both BNPL and cash loans, especially within the go-to ecosystem where engagement, risk performance, and unit economics are the strongest. Thank you. Thank you, Sudhanshu.

Thanks very much, Farid. We'll go to the next analyst. The next analyst is Henry Wibowo from J.P. Morgan. Henry, could you please unmute yourself and go ahead and ask your questions?

Hi, thank you, Patrick, Simon, Joel, and Goto team for the presentation. And congratulations on the strong set of results. Three questions from my end. Number one, could you tell us more about this partnership between Telkomsel and TikTok?

How is it going to broaden the fintech strategy? And do you see further partnership of this nature going forward? Second question is on net profit. I think congratulations on the achievement for adjusted EBITDA and also group EBITDA.

But how about net profit? Do you have any timeline when Goto can actually deliver positive net income? And what's the bridge between the EBITDA to income right now? Lastly, on ODS, what's the growth outlook for the remaining of this year and also next year, 2026, if there's any?

I think based on the latest number, it seems like Gotoh has been growing decent at about maybe high single digit. Given the rising competition, maybe could you share more about the outlook? Thank you.

Thank you, Henry. I will ask Danshu to address your first question about the fintech partnerships with TelcomSell and TikTok.

Thank you, Pat. Hi, Henry. Thanks for the question. Okay, so partnerships.

I think the most powerful fintech partnerships are ones that disappear into the background. They're not just distribution deals. They are seamless integrations that bring financial services and make them part of everyday lives of people. That's why in partnerships, what we focus on is providing value to our customers, whether they're on our apps or they're on our partners' apps.

Just to lay out the background, Telkomsel is Indonesia's largest telco with very deep reach into consumers nationwide. Now, our work together with them spans multiple initiatives, from payments integration to launching products that we know our customers will love, and then leveraging our combined scale to reach millions of potential customers. Some of the examples that Pat shared earlier, for example, the TelcomSell wallet builds on our experience of operating wallets within Gojek and Tokopedia, applying those learnings to improve the customer experience within the Tokopedia app, sorry, within the TelcomSell app.

Over the coming months, we will keep seeing incremental features that keep coming on the back of this feature. Coming to TikTok, they don't need an introduction. They're one of the world's largest social media platforms with very high engagement in Indonesia. Through our partnership, we're creating new ways for users to access and use our payments and lending solutions seamlessly in their daily flows.

For example, when a user decides they want to buy a product on Tokopedia or TikTok, we help provide options to simplify their buying decision. You can go for it. You can go buy it right now. You can go pay for it over time, depending on whatever is your condition at that point in time.

And all of these options are lending to strong growth in both payments and lending. So yes, we see very significant scope for further partnerships of this kind done right. These can accelerate adoption, deepen our engagement, and open up completely new channels over the medium term. Thank you.

Thank you, Sudhanshu. Catherine, I'll let you answer the question about the net profit at group level and how we bridge that to net income.

Thanks, Pat. Hi, Henry. Thank you. Thank you for the question.

As I mentioned earlier, we've put... This is five consecutive quarter of adjusted EBITDA improvement and three quarters for the group EBITDA positive. This is actually after the stock-based compensation. So from here to your question, to bring it to the net income, right?

the main item between our EBITDA and the net profit is the share of our Tokopedia result, right? As you know, Tokopedia result is a non-cash item and it's not reflective of our core operating performance. So this is the gap between the EBITDA and the net income. Another one on the stock-based compensation, as mentioned as well, is also a non-cash.

This is the difference between the adjusted EBITDA and the group EBITDA. It's also a non-cash, and as you see, we remain disciplined in our SPC, with the quarter-on-quarter continue to be managed lower as well. So our operating and financial performance the past few quarter has been consistently strong and expanding, and we expect to continue that momentum. This is putting net-to-net profit clearly within the site.

Thank you.

Thank you, Catherine. And Hans, would you please address the third question about the growth outlook for our on-demand services for the rest of 2025?

Sure thing. Thanks a lot for your question, Henry. On the growth outlook for ODS for the rest of the year, first let me state that we are very committed to do two things. One is to maintain and grow market share, while at the same time improving profitability through better products and also increasing our operating leverage.

Overall, on the top line, if you look at some of the publicly available information, consumer confidence indices has trended lower, and retail sales growth has also slowed compared to previous year. Hence, we expect the full year GTV growth for ODS to grow, but at a somewhat more measured pace. The mitigation for this are twofold. One is continuing to increase penetration.

When we look at the penetration levels of our services in Indonesia, compared to comparable benchmark markets, there is still room to grow penetration.

But that's what we will continue to focus on. Secondly, is the strategy that Pat has outlined earlier in the prepared remarks, which is our two-prong approach, right? On one hand, continuing to deepen the penetration growth in the premium segments, while simultaneously pursuing a clear mass market growth strategy that is based on product and not based on discounting levers. I think if I were to put it all together, one example of that was in the previous quarter, where even as competitive intensity rose, we've acted quickly with very targeted, very market-specific actions.

We have protected our market share and while at the same time maintaining our profitability. So I think that charts out a bit of the roadmap of what we intend to do for the rest of the year, which is to continue to maintain and grow our market share while at the same time improving profitability. Thank you, Henry.

Thanks very much, Henry. We will go to another analyst, Ryan Winita from Indo Premier. Please unmute yourself. Go ahead and ask your question.

Yeah, thanks, Joel. And can you hear me? Yes, we can, perfectly. Yeah, thanks, Joel.

And congratulations on a positive EBITDA. And I have two questions from my side. I think we already discussed about the current macro environment and all of the concern that is happening around us.

But I just wanted to know about the sustainability of the fintech growth trajectory in terms of the loan outstanding. Are the previous guidance can still be used for the rest of the year? And my second question, I think, is related to the cost reduction, whether if there is any opportunity to do further cost reduction or some kind of efficiency improvement within the company. I think that's all of two of my questions.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ryan. Sudhanshu, can you please address the first question about the sustainability of fintech's growth trajectory?

Sure, Pat. Thank you. Thank you, Ryan. Great, great question.

I personally spend a lot of time thinking about this. So maybe let me share more. So we've been growing the fintech business for the last few years. And I think we are very optimistic about being able to sustain this growth in the future.

And let me share why. So Indonesia is one of the largest and fastest growing markets for digital payments in the world. There are very strong structural tailwinds as the government is digitizing the country. And as that happens, more and more users become digital for the first time.

And from where we are, we are very well positioned to lead that growth. Maybe let me split the market into two different segments. If you look at affluent users first, Deep penetration on Gojek and Tokopedia has made Gopay the market leader among wallets in this segment. We built this position over years with multiple products, Gopay, Gopay Later, Gopay Tabungan, all of which continue to grow rapidly and expand into new use cases.

We serve virtually every high-frequency use case there is. We're very, very strong in online payments. And our offline QRIS volumes have grown at high teens every quarter for the past few years. We've also had notable wins, like we built out an AI-powered split bill feature launched last year on the Gopay app, which is now the largest in this category in Indonesia.

And based on its success, we're doubling down on a lot of new social use cases. And you'll see more of that in the quarters to come. So if you look at affluent users, we are very strong there and we intend to continue to strengthen our leadership in the segment. If you look at the other side of the market, the mass market, that is one of the most underserved segments.

And we decided to build a standalone GoPay app to meet the needs, the specific needs of the mass market. Over the last two years, we've seen significant growth, especially in tier two and tier three cities. Now, Maybe let me take a moment to explain more about this. So these customers have different requirements.

So we've had to fully tailor our solutions to make sense to the segment. For example, we started with making sure that we build a small app because when people run low on disk on their phone, they delete the apps that are bigger. And we wanted to be sure that we don't get deleted. Then, for example, we launched free transfers because, well, you shouldn't have to spend money to move your own money around.

And then third, we launched our consistently low prices campaign for bills and mobile drop-offs. And we did all of this by doing a lot of background work, like working with tens of partners to figure out how do we keep our cost to serve incredibly low and like building GoPay score so that we can pitch the right product to the right user when you come to our app.

All of this together has made us one of the most downloaded apps in the country in the last two years. I think according to Play Store, Android app has been downloaded a little over 50 million times. What we are doing is we're listening to the feedback, keep our experiments running, keep launching new stuff, and we keep going. Now, late last year, we launched another product that we call GoPay Games.

It's a platform for in-game top-ups. And in a few short quarters, we've seen that game become one of the largest in its category. And we got a lot of feedback from our users and they love the games. So then we went on to launch roughly about 50 mini games in the Goopay app.

And that had tremendous engagement. So we went on to build Gopay Pet, one of the games that we built out. And we've seen very strong engagement there as well. To the point that now roughly 10% of our monthly active users are active on at least one of these games.

What these are driving is exceptionally high engagement, really cheap prices, and very strong top of mind. Now, in the coming quarters, we're taking more steps to make GoPay the most available wallet. And we're doing that by a few key areas. One, we're deepening our penetration in cash-in, cash-out points nationwide.

Digital to cash is one of the key frontiers that we have to cross. Second, we are going after public transportation. We are now, as of today, the only wallet which is accepted across MRT, Trans Jakarta, KCI, Go Transit, you name it. If you're in Jakarta and you're going to take public transport, we're the only wallet that works across.

As you mentioned earlier, we're working with the telcos to bring digital payments to areas previously outside of our reach. In the coming quarters, we're going to get this user base, not with discounts, but by building consumer centric products that help solve the life's problems. So at least we see a very strong potential for growth here. Lastly, coming to monetization.

This one is simpler. We've consistently shown our ability to grow our loan book while keeping a very tight watch on portfolio quality. You can see that in our delinquency data. Even though we have doubled our loan book over the last year, our lending penetration on Gojek and GoPay apps is still in low single digits, which means we have a lot of headroom.

And as GoPay scales, this headroom will only further increase. So if you put it all together, all five things, a large and fast-growing market, strong positions in both affluent and mass markets, consumer-centric products, a highly engaged user base, and a disciplined approach to lending. This is what we believe is a recipe for growth, and we are optimistic that we can continue this for years to come. Thank you.

Thank you, Sudhanshu. Simon, would you please answer the second question about opportunities for further cost reduction and efficiency improvements?

Yeah. Yes, Patrick. Thank you, Ryan, for the question. Short answer is yes, we have been and we will continuously focus on driving our cost efficiency and cost improvements.

As Patrick mentioned earlier in his remarks, we spent the last year pretty much, we've upgraded and refreshed our technology infrastructure. And one of the benefits of that is, we're now on much lower cost technology infrastructure with our new cloud providers. As we mentioned before, the rates on these new clouds are now more than 50% lower than before. And of course, this is highly beneficial for the unit economics for the business.

In terms of So a second point to make is we are also continuously driving positive operating leverage to the business. And you would have noticed if you look at the group numbers, it has been the case in the last several quarters and going back many quarters now that we've loan our operating expenses at a slower pace than our revenue growth, quite substantially lower. And we intend to continue to drive the positive operating leverage with the business through tighter cost discipline, and also through the product innovations and in improving our revenues.

Our goal is to achieve a leaner cost base and be able to achieve durable margins while we're able to continue to invest in product and technology that can drive the business forward. I hope that helps answer your question, Ryan. Thank you. Thank you, Simon.

Thanks very much, Ryan. We'll go to the next analyst, Ari Jaha from Macquarie. Ari, please unmute yourself and go ahead.

Hi, Patrick, Simon, Joel, and Goto team. Thanks for taking my question and well done for a resilient quarter. So I have three questions for today. So first two on fintech.

So first, what will be the strategy to drive loan book growth in the second half of the year to reach 8 trillion of loan book by year end, especially after a nine to the second quarter of growth? Second on fintech, Can you discuss the credit risk trends and also the outlook for the rest of the year? And then lastly, on ODS, in light of the competition, what are your expectations for margins and pricing for the second half of 2025?

Thank you.

Thank you, Ari. Sudhanshu, why don't you take the first two questions about the strategy to drive loan growth to achieve our target of 8 trillion rupiah of loan outstanding by year-end? And the credit restraints for the rest of the year. Thank you, Pat.

Hi, Ari. Great question, as always. Maybe let me start off with the first one. Our strategy to drive loan book growth for the second half.

Again, I think this is two parts. I've already talked for a long time on user growth and how we're bringing more people, so I'll not cover that again. As that keeps moving, that gives us a lot of headroom. In terms of how we grow the lending users, the strategy is two parts.

It's time tested and proven. We've done it consistently. And this is what we'll continue to do in the coming half. First is on expanding our lending customer base.

And second is on increasing lending to the existing customers. Maybe let me talk about both of them. Now, first on new users. As I said earlier, only a small percentage of our users take a loan with us today, of all the users who are in the GoTo ecosystem, which means we have significant headroom.

Now, to go after new users, we keep upgrading our credit scoring models and cross-selling capabilities to extend loans to more first-time borrowers, with the key measure being that we do not want to compromise quality. We start with very small loans and over the next few quarters, slowly increase the limits and tenure as we understand those users better. Our delinquency data over the past six quarters shows that credit quality has remained consistently strong and stable.

And over the coming half, that is what we intend to do as well. Second, coming on to existing customers or portfolio management, account management. Now here, We are seeing a very healthy growth from customers who have successfully repaid earlier loans. And they come back for more.

This reflects satisfaction and trust in our products. And those positive experiences are leading to higher usage, deeper penetrations, and is adding meaningful scale to the loan book. Just to add, the repeat loans always have significantly better risk performance because we understand those users a lot better. Now, if you look at the half so far, we've come a long way.

We're now at close to 6.6 trillion IDR. We have half of the year to go, which is usually the faster growing half of the year. So as long as we continue on the strategy of going after users while keeping a tight watch on the quality, I feel fairly confident that we will reach the 8 trillion target by the end of the year. Now, coming on to your second one, which is on the credit risk trends and the outlook for the rest of the year.

Now, I agree that it's a very relevant question right now, given the market environment. Now, as a team, we closely monitor the macroeconomic trends in Indonesia globally, as well as the asset quality amongst competitors and major banks. And we are seeing what you are seeing as well.

However, our experience has been different. Over the past year, we have grown the loan book significantly, and we have done so without any material deterioration in credit quality. And I think the reason for that are three things. First, our ecosystem gives us a unique advantage.

Think about it. There are tens of millions of customers generating billions of transactions on our platform. And that rich data set, which is now strengthened even more by the scale of the GoPay app and its expanded product set, gives us very deep insights into individual credit risk than traditional lenders can access. Second, a credit model is very dynamic.

We can adjust quickly to market conditions and constantly validate model output through live lending experiments, which we do all of the time, which helps us make course corrections in real time. Third, a loan portfolio is short duration. This means it allows us to make rapid adjustments if credit conditions turn, which limits risk while keeping quality stable. Now, if we hit a risk scenario or a stress scenario, which there are no guarantees for in life, we could tighten credit standards very quickly, which might slow growth in the short term, but protect quality as most of the repaid is short term and gets repaid within a few months.

So overall, our focus on short loans combined with ecosystem insight and flexibility has kept our credit quality consistently stable, even in a softer macro. And looking at this, I feel that The trend looks good. We are hoping that there is no major change in the macro in the coming six months. And based on that assumption, we are very confident that we should be able to reach the 8 trillion loan book by the end of the year while maintaining a healthy portfolio quality.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sudhanshu. Hans, with you. Please answer the third question about the expectations of margins for the on-demand services.

Sure thing. Will do, Pat. Hi, Ari. Thank you for the question.

On ODS bottom line, we expect margins to remain stable and we also expect profitability to remain strong. We will continue to execute our two-track strategy, which is on one hand growing the premium segments, which tend to have higher margins, while at the same time growing the mass market through product levers, via the discounting levers. So combined, putting things together, we are on track to deliver at least 1.1 trillion rupiah of adjusted EBITDA this year, which will be 60% higher than what it was last year.

I hope this answers your question. Thank you.

Thanks, Gautam and all the best for the year.

Thank you very much, Ari. And it is past the top of the hour. That will be the last question we have for today. Thank you very much all for attending this call.

And we look forward to speaking to many of you in the coming weeks and months.